Mack versus Gem Snow?

[Franks_Geckos]

Does anyone know if any conclusions have been reached regarding the genetic similarity of the Gem Snow and Mack Snow lines? If I recall correctly, Kelli indicated that she had crossed them and was expecting hatchlings? This was about a month ago.

 

[KelliH]

Hi Frank-

The Mack and Gem lines are the same. I hatched a super snow a few days ago from anMack X Gem breeding.

 

[Franks_Geckos]

As suspected. Thanks for the update and the picture. I guess this puts an end to the “Incomplete Dominant” argument as well as the question as to what the “Super Form” of the “Gem Snow” looks like . Kelli, if I recall correctly, you also hatched a Super from a Mack x “Line Bred” Snow pairing as well recently. With this knowledge, I can’t help but wonder what, if any, updates you have on that project, and, what your personal opinion is on how the “Line Bred” and Mack snows are tied together. Also, knowing what you know now, if you didn’t already own a snow, what type would you buy and why?

 

[ExcessiveHerps]

And gem snow isn't said to orginate from John Mack stock?

 

[Grinning Geckos]

That is what has been said. Thanks for sharing Kelli...I was wondering about that!

 

[ExcessiveHerps]

Its really interesting to see that Gem and line bred snows from Albey are actually Mack snows. I don't know how the the heck Mack Snows wheren't discovered earlier thru Albey's snow line did everyone just outcross and not breed snow to snow? Is Albey's lien bred snow the same as TUG's?

 

[Grinning Geckos]

I'm not sure the line breeds she came up with supers are from Albey. I thought I heard her mention getting them from Cody @ Progeckos...if so, where did his come from? LOL

You're not the only one puzzled as to why the SS Macks are just now popping up seemingly from everywhere.

 

[ExcessiveHerps]

I'm not sure the line breeds she came up with supers are from Albey. I thought I heard her mention getting them from Cody @ Progeckos...if so, where did his come from? LOL

You're not the only one puzzled as to why the SS Macks are just now popping up seemingly from everywhere.

They are from Cody who got his line from Albey...

 

[Grinning Geckos]

Heehee....explains that!

 

[Franks_Geckos]

I thought they were all (Cody's and Albey's) purchased from A1, which, in any event, pretty much ensures that they were the same bloodline of line-bred snows. The primary reason I started this thread was to confirm for my own satisfaction that the "Gem" line being different than the Mack line was a myth. Of course, already knowing that the Supers Kelli produced with a Mack x Line Bred pairing, I also hoped to get a little more insight as to what genetic similarities there are and how or what could be proven. It is definitely an interesting topic for discussion

 

[robin]

as i see it.. as many geckos that come and go and are born and bred every year and considering it is a co-dominant trait im not very suprised that three breederes lines have proven to be the same exact trait.. albey,mack and the gems. when you really think about it the reptile comunity is small so different people getting geckos with the same genetic trait and not knowing is quite the possibility

 

[Jeanne]

WooHoo! Now I have 2.2.1!

 

[Franks_Geckos]

WooHoo! Now I have 2.2.1!

I am jealous. I have 0.0.0
I will have one within a few weeks though as I believe I will be getting one at the July 9th show...... of course, I will have to sell a few of my own to have the cash on hand......

I believe I will get a full grown male. The price has come down quite a bit now that alot of breeders have hatched them.

 

[Pro Geckos]

I'm not sure the line breeds she came up with supers are from Albey. I thought I heard her mention getting them from Cody @ Progeckos...if so, where did his come from? LOL

You're not the only one puzzled as to why the SS Macks are just now popping up seemingly from everywhere.

They are from Cody who got his line from Albey...

Yes, Kelli is breeding 3 of my line bred snows to a super snow male. One is from Albey and the other two are from Shelly at Lizard Lair. Both have hatched super snows. I know Shelly has some from Albey and some of his came from A1. So most of our snows originated from A1. Now I’m not sure why a super snow hasn’t been produced from two ‘line’ bred snows. It only seems to happen when breeding a super to a line bred. Hopefully we’ll find out because this wracks my brain every time I think about it.

 

[bro paul]

I know there's another thread where this is being discussed (Albey's) and I kinda shared the same info there...

But, after talking to Kelli the other day, I do believe that the Gems are indeed Macks. That's the best explanation at this point. I was very excited to hear that she hatched a SS from the Gem x Mack cross. I am still concerned though, that we haven't seen a Super Snow from Gem x Gem breedings...once I do, I'll be 100% convinced (hopefully any day now ) In Albey's thread, he offered the idea that maybe there is a hidden gene at work in the Supers. It will be interesting to see what develops. Again, I can see the Gems being Macks...especially since thier genetics play out the same, but line bred snows seem to be working with a totally different "path of inheritance" (sorry, I'm no genetics expert!). Hope that made sense. It still blows my mind that no visible Super Snow have been produced by Albey (w/ line breds) or Jim (w/ Gem Snows)...ahhhhhhhh

 

[Gregg M]

Hi Frank-

The Mack and Gem lines are the same.

I knew it!!!
Thanks for proving that out Kelli...

 

[Franks_Geckos]

We should really stop referring to the "other" Co-Dom snows as Gem Snows to eliminate the confusion that anyone who is new to the hobby might experience. If they are Macks, call them Macks or CoDoms instead of creating a name for a morph that doesn't exist.

 

[bro paul]

Give us a minute to get used to it Frank! lol It's still a little confusing for some of us who aren't new to the hobby. Atleast on these discussion boards...we need some way to refer to the developing progress. I do agree that we should soon drop the Gem name...infact, I did so on my available page after I talked with Kelli last week...but I hope I wasn't premature. I still think the snows and Mack snows have a little more mystery going on than we've been able to figure out yet...same for the RAPTORs and all these other "eye morphs" we're dealing with.

 

[ExcessiveHerps]

We should really stop referring to the "other" Co-Dom snows as Gem Snows to eliminate the confusion that anyone who is new to the hobby might experience. If they are Macks, call them Macks or CoDoms instead of creating a name for a morph that doesn't exist.

I think they still need some more breeding to be completely proven, at this point no SS have been produced from "gem" x "gem" breeding.

 

[ReptilianGems]

I just posted to the thread below, and then read this one. Since what I wrote is applicable to this thread also, I will just paste it here.......


Just heard about this thread, so I thought I would put in my 2 cents worth. It is my humble opinion that probably most if not all snows being called line snows (and mine) probably are descended from A1 stock. Mine however, are not line bred. I figured out last year (right in the middle of mostly out breeding) that mine are Incomplete Dominant, and yes it is different than Co-Dominant. I haven’t done enough Gem to Gem breeding to be absolutely sure I can’t produce a “Super”, but I haven’t yet.
I agree fully with the conclusion that many people are reaching about the “other” snows out there being more attractive than the Macks. But I guess beauty as they say is in the eye of the beholder, so again, this is just my opinion. Since I figured out what was going on with mine genetically, I have given the Macks a lot of thought, even though I am far from an expert, having never owned one, lol. From everything I have read and heard, I believe the Macks are a poly genetic trait. Or in other words, there are more than one pair of genes involved in creating a Mack Super.
I have a theory about what is going on with the Mack X Gem cross producing Supers. I think that they are both inherited at the same locus on the chromosome. Or in other words, at that locus, there are 3 possible alleles. Normal, Mack, and Gem.
Normal + Mack = Incomplete Dominant relationship, with the Mack Dominating the normal, but not completely.
Normal + Gem = Incomplete Dominant relationship, with the Gem Dominating the normal, but not completely.
Mack + Gem = Dominant/Recessive relationship, with the Mack completely dominating the Gem.

Like I said, it is just a theory. Until there is a consensus on what is going on with the results of some of the crosses, it is really going to be fun working with snows, and seeing what happens next. I would also like to thank Kelli, Albey, Paul, and others for sharing their results with the rest of us. I don’t know about everybody else, but I don’t think we have scratched the surface yet on what can be done with the snows. I am starting to ramble lol, so I had better close.