Attention Halloween Maskers

[spykerherps]

I know this may be a long shot But I'll give it a go.
Would she be considered a HM?

I got her in 07 from Marcia she is a bold stripe red stripe cross hatched in 05. I am not sure if Marcia produced her. If not she might have come from Paul
Thoughts, Opinions, Ideas. Paul do you recognize her?:main_robin:.:main_laugh:
she has past on similar bold masking to her offspring.

I am not planing on marketing them as HM just thought I would get others thoughts and maybe find out more of her background. she has produced some nice variety from more boldish striped like her to PS offspring when pared with an aptor.

 

[BlackDiamondGeckos]

I do know that Marcia had an extensive bold line, which she left unnamed (I believe)- rumor has it she sold a lot, if not all, to RT at a show. Those are the ones he used to develop the now named Halloween Masks and Bandits. She still is one of the best producers of bold stripes and high contrast geckos.

So, all that said, in my opinion, that looks like a HM.

 

[PacHerp]

I wouldn't call it a Halloween Mask unless it was purchased directly from Paul Allen at Bright Albino, as he's been working exlusively with them for quite some time. What I can say about that gecko is that it's a BEAUTIFUL stripe... I'd consider breeding it with a HM to see what you get.

As a side note... it's good to see you on the forums, Davey! Welcome!

 

[eric]

Hey Zach, give me a call if you can! (541)891-0681

 

[yellermelon]

Yeah to be a HWM needs to come from Pauls specific line of HWM geckos...

 

[spykerherps]

Pauls specific line of HWM geckos...

who's line is who? most people at the base of our foundation have shared and traded and bought from each other. he got some from him, she got some from him, he got it from her. most things have been mixed together and without exacting data and record keeping who's to say I don't have the same "blood" he is working with.

NOT that I want to call or sell my geckos as HWM. I don't. I am not trying to get too deep into the whole marketing thing its more for the passion and accomplishment I get from breeding these little creatures. Getting what little $$ I get back is just a small bonus. I have much respect for Paul Allen and what he is doing with his animals.

I was mainly asking if Marcia could give me some background info on her if she does indeed remember her.or if she did not produce her who she got her from.

hypothetically Say I were to make a patternless striped bell albino with red eyes with out buying any RADAR genes from Kelli or JMG, should I not call them RADARS? would I have to make up another name for them? I'm not RT.:main_laugh:

 

[yellermelon]

Well, your right in the sence that a BOLD gecko is a bold gecko. And I think they originated all in the same place. But, from how I understand it Albey noticed a few geckos that where a bit different awhile back and decided to breed for head pattern. Paul has been working with them for a few years now line breeding for better pattern on the heads. One of the wierdest parts of the Halloween mask are they tend to get darker as they age. All of these geckos are decendants from those original geckos from Albey, If you have a R2 bold with a nice head pattern its just that a R2 with a nice head pattern. I have a few I crossed into my Halloween projects, but they did NOT give nearly as nice offspring as HWM X HWM. I will gladdly make a picture post to help visually explain what i am saying. Granted the Bold X HWM babies are extremmly cool, they do not look as wierdly different as my HWM X HWM. Its the line breeding that makes his line his. If you have a line of bolds that breed true with bold head patterns I guess they would be like the halloween mask....

Heres a post Paul made last year
http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=13474
If you go to his collection part of his website he has description there as well.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I do know that Marcia had an extensive bold line, which she left unnamed (I believe)- rumor has it she sold a lot, if not all, to RT at a show.

This rumor is false. I did sell a large number of bold stripes to another large-scale breeder, though. I still have 2 separate lines of bolds, as well as crosses between them.

I was mainly asking if Marcia could give me some background info on her if she does indeed remember her.or if she did not produce her who she got her from.

Zach, she was produced by me. I was trying to cross the bold stripes into the red stripes in attempt to get those red stripes 'bold' again.

I believe the Bolds, the Bandits, and the Halloweens are all related... probably back to RT's lines a l-o-n-g time ago. I would not be a bit suprised if there was some E. m. afghan influence as well.

For example, here is a recent photo of the original R2 male (Pops). I will post some old pics of the difference between the R2's and the GGG line in a later post:

 

[Gecko Euphoria]

Actually doesnt have to come from paul allens line as I know a few other people working on there own lines me included, and Ron trempers bandit designers will create your halloween mask its just a name granted pauls are his line but there are a few other lines I call mine h2's this year and every year the number will change but there really isnt a specific line as paul allens are his own selectively bred line , they are just bold jungles, stripes and darker marked normals, and Trempers bold bandit designers, that have been selectively bred to produce dark markings a halloween is not a known recessive or dominant gene per say, its a selectively bred trait that really any one can make from selectievly breeding from dark markings. It definatley not like a snow, or morphs like that as you are not guarenteed to get halloweens out of halloweens you can really produce a number of variations and the ones that turn out lighter I'd just say are normal jungles. Its a morph that already existed before the halloween its just a selectively bred version of that morph to a highly pronounced mask of bold black markings. So I wouldnt say that paul allens are the only halloweens. although his are the first and he coined the name. Its something any one can start a line of halloweens with the right bold patterns? So I'd say pauls halloweens are his own line of halloweens.
And you can start your own line with the right geckos. Just like sunglows, even though there are many sunglows you can still create your own version of a sunglow, granted it will be a normal albino name like las vegas, Tremper, or bell, but you can definately breed it to a certain super hypo and create your own line of them. So dont get dicouraged you can try that gecko and see if you can get some bold masks out of her and selectively breed them so all the generations show the markings. This is just my opinion and If its not right then we should let Ron Tremper know as he is selling his bold bandits as halloween producers?

Yeah to be a HWM needs to come from Pauls specific line of HWM geckos...

 

[Gecko Euphoria]

Well said a names a name once its coined then other breeders who create the same thing from scratch actually should call it that name its the same thing if not we'd have a whole bunch of names and prices fro the same exact things. Well said!!!

who's line is who? most people at the base of our foundation have shared and traded and bought from each other. he got some from him, she got some from him, he got it from her. most things have been mixed together and without exacting data and record keeping who's to say I don't have the same "blood" he is working with.

NOT that I want to call or sell my geckos as HWM. I don't. I am not trying to get too deep into the whole marketing thing its more for the passion and accomplishment I get from breeding these little creatures. Getting what little $$ I get back is just a small bonus. I have much respect for Paul Allen and what he is doing with his animals.

I was mainly asking if Marcia could give me some background info on her if she does indeed remember her.or if she did not produce her who she got her from.

hypothetically Say I were to make a patternless striped bell albino with red eyes with out buying any RADAR genes from Kelli or JMG, should I not call them RADARS? would I have to make up another name for them? I'm not RT.:main_laugh:

 

[Nigel4less]

Crossing a Bold Stripe a Tangerine is not the same as making a Halloween Mask... last I remember the Halloween name was being used on DARK Tangerines with Dark Tails.

 

[yellermelon]

Its all in the head pattern, and I have gotton 100% Halloween mask geckos from my HWM X HWM VERY VERY noticabley different. Pauls have been selectivally bred long enought to have a DISTINCT look to them. Your right anyone could make Halloween mask with a bit of work I guess.

 

[ang3l3s]

is this genetic or line bred????

 

[spykerherps]

Well I guess the answer would be both, sort of. (Anyone working with the real HWM please chime in.)

I will try to explain. To be genetic the trait would have to be past on, and that it most certainly is. people are getting quite the masks in hatchlings that are being past on from their parents. but when you take those babies and hold them back and start line breeding those for a specific look then it would be line bred.

BUT I do not believe this morph has been extensively line bred to the point of its potential to be a truly recognizable morph. as it has only been worked with for the past 2 to 3 years.

 

[bro paul]

Hey Zach - Sorry I haven't responded sooner. I've been trying to keep up with this thread...but haven't had as much time for the forum as I'm used to.
I guess there's a lot of info I could throw in, but it sounds like some good discussion has already happened.

I'll take some time to give some facts as soon as I can! This is an interesting discussion. Beautiful gecko, by the way